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Plinths and Rosettes

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Topic by MarkTheFiddler posted 07-23-2012 09:56 PM 6727 views 0 times favorited 27 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

07-23-2012 09:56 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question fasteners glue nailer remodeling

Howdy,

This is my concept for plinths and rosettes.

I have a few issues.
1) How do I clamp the pieces without slippage.
2) The backside of the pieces is also angled. Hollow would be the word I’m looking for. Do you see a problem if I just nailed them in with brads?
3) I was also thinking I could lay a bead of liquid nails in the hollow back side. Any issue there?

I appreciate any help you can give me.

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.



View Sailor's profile

Sailor

19 posts in 3069 days

07-23-2012 11:53 PM

Clamping without slippage would be tricky. Not sure what your clamping to, but some side supports may be able to fix that. Just be sure they dont get glued in place with the glue that seeps out.

Just using nails and brads should be fine if your ok with the holes.

Liquid nails wouldn’t hurt, but I don’t see any real reason to fill it.

View GaryL's profile

GaryL

206 posts in 2851 days

07-24-2012 12:11 AM

Can you show a photo of the back?
I guess I’m a little confused. The plinths should be the first item installed and then the base and casing. If your also doing rosettes, put these on first then cut your casing to fit. It seems that your on somewhat of a backwards track.
No offense intended. I just assumed that when you posted your base completion that was all that you intended to do.

-- The difference between a pro and an amateur, an amateur points out his mistakes

View BillyJ's profile

BillyJ

258 posts in 3321 days

07-24-2012 02:15 AM

Mark – Is this what you are thinking about doing?

If so, then you need to have a very simple casing (but follow the lines of your plinth/rosette). Also, you say that both are hollow. Mount a nail-block on the wall, then glue and nail the plinth/rosette to the nail-block.

What I do not know, however, is the size of each. Are we looking at 2 1/2×2 1/2 for the rosette? If the plinth is wider (it looks to be that way), then you want to run a column (casing) to the rosette.

Also, you might want to cut the base of the plinth, so it sits flush to the floor (eliminating the bottom hip).

(sorry – although I’ve worked with Sketch-up, this was faster)

-- No matter how many times I measure, I always forget the dimensions before I cut.

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

07-24-2012 03:47 AM

Howdy,

Thanks for chiming in guys.

Sailor, thanks very much for the advice. It sounds right to me. If it won’t hurt to glue, I’ll do that after Gary has a chance to see the backside.

Gary, I’ll hang my head down and say “you’re right”. I think my biggest error was in not realizing that I was going to replace the door trim. Call it denial right down to the end. I not only appreciate your observations, I agree with them. You can always speak directly to me. Honest, I promise that I have a thick skin and I’m here to learn.

Billy, how cool is that? You got in one. That’s exactly what I’m planning. It’s got to be an optical illusion because the triangles in the plinth and rosette are the same. I was cutting hundreds of triangles today in my driveway. I need 240 of the suckers. That’s not even counting the ones I’ll do in hardwood. They are all exactly 2 inches wide. That is so they will match the space I have left over when I take out the old trim. Gary is right. I’m working backwards. I’ll be working forwards on the remaining rooms because I know that all the door trim is coming out.

I even have some undoing with the quarter round. I’ve decided on a different style that will compliment the plinths and not look so busy. It’s worth it. I just wish I knew everything before I started on the projects. It’s the rework that will get me in the end. What I like is every time I redo something, it’s an improvement. I’m also getting faster at this.

Guys, I’ll have photos of the back side soon.

Almost forgot, the sides and bottom are 90 degrees to to the wall and flush to the floor. Before I started cutting the wood into tiny pieces, I cut 7 degrees off both sides of my stock. When I glue the pieces together, it returns the outsides to 90 degrees.

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

07-24-2012 04:28 AM

Plinths and Rosettes,

Production version Shows dimension better. Plinth 6.5 by 2. Rosette 2X2

Back side

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

View BillyJ's profile

BillyJ

258 posts in 3321 days

07-24-2012 06:33 PM

YOU’RE ASSEMBLING THEM??!! Stop the presses! I thought you were cutting angles on the table saw. THAT is A LOT of work!!!!! At first, I thought you purchased these (thus the hollow back). Now that I see what you are doing, scratch my first suggestion of putting a nailing block on the back. You can nail directly to the wall.

Not knowing what tools you have to work with, wouldn’t you be better off just running these through your table saw with the blade tilted? Also, is your plinth going to have an angle on the floor? The closer you are to the floor, the meatier it should be (so taking any off the bottom will not look right).

Don’t worry about re-do’s. That’s part of life. Better to do it right, after 100 tries, then to settle for less the what you want after one time. That’ll look nice when you finish.

-- No matter how many times I measure, I always forget the dimensions before I cut.

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

07-24-2012 06:52 PM

Billy,

I told you I was insane. ;)

Just because I come up with and idea, certainly doesn’t mean it’s a good one. The pieces are coming together well although I only have one special clamp to do half a rosette at a time. Again, all I can do is smile.

I don’t think I explained it quite right. The sides are completely square.

I got 2 votes for nailing. That’s what I’ll do. No need to waste time with liquid nails.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

View BillyJ's profile

BillyJ

258 posts in 3321 days

07-24-2012 08:44 PM

No problem. If you are on your way, no sense starting over. I probably didn’t explain myself properly either. Here is what I’m talking about.

The sides are square, but it is angled – correct? I suggest you cut the lowest part (at the dotted line) so the lowest part rests on the floor.

-- No matter how many times I measure, I always forget the dimensions before I cut.

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

07-24-2012 10:19 PM

Billy,

I am way fortunate that you have been so keenly helpful to me. You continue to impress me as a man with a huge heart. Thank you for everything and your investment in my project. I don’t know what else to say. Well maybe this: Everytime I look at my hallway, baseboard caulking, coping, plinths, rosettes, sheet rock corners, and on and on, I’m going to think about the guys who had a hand in it. If my work looks good it’s a reflection of the help I got from you all. The best parts are the parts where I followed everyone’s kind advice.

About your suggestion. I really like the fact that the bottom of the plinth angles back to the wall. I get the concern over not having having enough base to stand on. Appearance wise, I’m going to throw my standard line about it being “my house”. However, You may be trying to save me from creating a tremendous eyesore. If you think I’m creating an eyesore, let me know and that bottom triangle will disappear.

I doctored up your image a little to show what It looks like.

Structural strength is a whole different ballpark. I definately want that part to be right.

The MDF is 5/8 thick. Because of the angle, about 1/16 was added to the thickness. Let’s say I’m going to have 11/16 of an inch flush to the floor. Does that address structual concerns? If not, let me know and that bottom triangle will disappear.

If I am missing the point again (likely), tell me and that bottom triangle will disappear.

On top of all of that, It may dissappear anyway because I’m now thinking about it from the awkward appearance stand point. I’ll look at it against the baseboard before I make that decision.

I have a thick skin here brother. The right thing IS the right thing and that’s what I want. If you don’t mind indulging my post one last time, I would be super appreciative.

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

View GaryL's profile

GaryL

206 posts in 2851 days

07-25-2012 12:16 AM

Ok..I’ll throw it at ya….Loose the bottom triangle.

Didn’t realize that you were glueing all these together. But live and learn. But that is a lot of learning…lol
I do like the look. If you haven’t glued everything together, maybe rethink just cutting the angles out of some 5/4.
A cheap way to get some 5/4 is to buy yellow pine treads at Lowes or HD. This will save ALOT of time and glue ups.

-- The difference between a pro and an amateur, an amateur points out his mistakes

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

07-25-2012 01:15 AM

That’s 2 votes from respected mentors. Loosing the bottom triangle.

I’ve done all the glue ups for the hall side of things. It’s not a nightmare and I got a movie in before I came to work. It only took 6 hours to watch the thing but that’s something. I actually saw a transformers movie. Made me kind of dizzy.

It doesn’t seem that you all are telling me that the plinths and rosettes are wrong for the glue so I’ll finish them up. I have quite the assembly line. ;) Besides, laying a cloud of MDF dust over the neighorhood was quite the treat.

When I do the doorways with finished wood, I’ll be doing exactly as you all advised with one exception. I’m going to do a little better than pine.

Whoah, Just had a bad thought. If I cut these pieces using the table saw, I think I need to cut like this. My table only leans 47ish degrees so I couldn’t lay them flat.

When I get down to the itsy bitsy rossettes, How am I going to make the final miter cuts? Now mind you, setting a 2 inch square in the vicinity of that roaring finger ripping good blade is not scary at all. Apparently, I need some more know how.

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

View BillyJ's profile

BillyJ

258 posts in 3321 days

07-25-2012 03:36 AM

I’ve been working in the shop – sorry for the late reply. Seeing as you have an assembly station working at 100% proficiency, it’s not my place to question. Well, it sounded good – right?? :)

For safety sake, you’re probably doing it the safest way. How many do you need to make? Would it be worth building a jig for the table saw? Running a board through the saw twice will eliminate two sides of the rosette. Cut them into your 2” sq pieces, then run the 3rd side (ganged together with a jig). Flip, then run the opposite and final side.

The jig would cradle a number of them (think of a box that will hold them in a row). Make sure it is tight.

My lawyers just text me saying I should include this disclaimer.

DISCLAIMER: Machines are powerful and unforgiving. DO NOT attempt this unless you are fully paid up on your insurance. Anything I just wrote, and you just read, might cause great harm (and my insurance policy wouldn’t cover squat).

Anyway, do you have a router table? What about angled cutters? I know there are many companies that make angled cutters. At least my lawyers wouldn’t be on me about making suggestions!

-- No matter how many times I measure, I always forget the dimensions before I cut.

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

07-25-2012 07:48 PM

Billy – 3 things.

1) I have been laughing my rear end off ever since I read your disclaimer.

2) I corrected my illustration about cutting the 2 inch rosettes on the table saw. You like?

3) 3 ideas for Jigs came into mind for cutting the rosettes. And an idea for using the miter saw to cut the final sides. All safer than my detailed no jig illustration. Thank you very much for the ideas! Wait – they were my ideas. Wait – I wouldn’t have thought about them. Wait….

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

07-25-2012 08:14 PM

Billy,

I forgot to mention the router table. I have a craftsman cheapo. My bit’s are a basic set. I can’t “see” a solution there.

I told you that I think you are a good problem solver. You probably know just what to do with what I have.

Gary on the other hand has probably solved all the problems already and just does it. He probably learns something new every few months where as I learn something new every 18.32 seconds.

Question. When you and Gary were talking about caulking half an inch to an inch, did that include fingers?

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

View BillyJ's profile

BillyJ

258 posts in 3321 days

07-26-2012 01:05 AM

LOL. I’ve been fairly fortunate – I still have all of my fingers and the two thumbs (its 8:45 PM, EDT as I write this). That’s not to say that I’m careful. Rather, I’m lucky. I shudded just thinking about all the mishaps I’ve been involved in and witnessed. Yesterday I had a piece of ply kickback on me. I’ve learned to stand off to the side, but for whatever reason, it caught me in the stomach. Fortunately I was wearing my shop apron, so no real damage. I joke a lot about this stuff, but really respect my tools.

Now on to your diagram. Its much clearer to me why my lawyers text me. Is that a common sight in your shop, or were you just using this as an example of what could happen? I’m thinking its rather common – no blood, and they look drier then a dog bisquet. Next time use your table brush and flick them on the floor!

Regarding Gary. You’re absolutely right. It takes me a day or two to figure out how to do something. In that amount of time, Gary has written an article in a trade journal, developed (and applied for a US Pat & TM) for the jig, and is on to the next job. Heck, I’m sure he already has a jig buried in his shop for your rosette.

-- No matter how many times I measure, I always forget the dimensions before I cut.

View GaryL's profile

GaryL

206 posts in 2851 days

07-27-2012 01:42 AM

WOW…and I left my Superman cape at the cleaners…....cough..cough..gag…..
I could never right an article for a trade journal because it takes me twenty minutes to type one sentence.

I would be the crazy guy and just run them through with a good solid sliding push block with possibly a finger board of some sort on the leading edge or fastened/clamped to the push block/jig. But that’s me and ….

DISCLAIMER: Machines are powerful and unforgiving. DO NOT attempt this unless you are fully paid up on your insurance. Anything I just wrote, and you just read, might cause great harm (and my insurance policy wouldn’t cover squat).

Now Billy can sue me for copyright infringement…..lol

And by the way, I do still have all appendages still attached. I fired a guy last year that scared the heck out of me using the table saw. And he said he worked at a cabinet shop for years prior, can we spell LIAR.

-- The difference between a pro and an amateur, an amateur points out his mistakes

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

07-27-2012 04:06 AM

Guys,

Thanks for the tips! I like my new look too!

Plinths and rosettes are painted, door trim is demolished. Gotta cut new door trim. I should be a lot better off after Saturday.

I guess this set back cost me about 8 hours of work. Not so bad considering. My quarter round will probably cost me a day when I rip it out of the other rooms. It’s worth it. When you have been working on a house for a year, a few days a month worth of redos is not so bad.

Oh hey – my finger is back! It was a bad dream.

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

View J's profile

J

70 posts in 2260 days

07-27-2012 06:26 AM

I suppose I can add my two cents, albiet a bit late…
Glue and pin nail the plinth blocks and rosettes, once pinned you can clamp if desired.
I agree, no bevel on the bottom part of the plinth block, the bottom triangle is a space that whoever cleans on a regular basis will loathe you for all time, and the shadow line will look bad in my opinion.

I agree with Gary, run your piece of MDF on edge with a fingerboard holding the side tight to the fence, if you run 8’ at a time in double width then you have a secure place to hold on with your hands away from the blade while you cut your bevel, then rip the piece to width, follow that up by cutting the 3 suggested pieces of your plinth, and 4 rosette pieces from long stock. It will keep your hands away from the blade and result in rosette pieces that do not take flight (while you are cutting them from long stock).

You have all of that blue tape, try using some of it to “clamp” your rosettes together.

I hope I’m not too far behind and that my dead tired read through I haven’t missed everything obviously already said. I had a cherry kitchen and some custom furniture to deliver…

And Mark, last time I saw something like your little picture was about ten years ago when I had to put my former boss’s pinky, ring, and middle finger into my lunch box and take him to the hospital. Please be careful with your saws!

-J

-- I found the board stretcher... finally!

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

07-27-2012 12:46 PM

J, thank you so much for chiming in!

All our joking reveals a far more serious topic. The absolute need for safety. There was no way I was going to get my fingers anywhere near that blade unless I could do it safely. I appreciate the reinforcement. It’s really comforting to know that you guys are on the same page. I don’t have to decide who is right.

I am far along with assembling the mdf plinths and rosettes. All of discussion will help me cut the pieces for the stained pieces I’ll be cutting in the near future.

I’ve go to say that I wasn’t thinking about cleaning the plinths. I need to keep things like that in mind the next time I decide to design some bit of architecture.

Thanks again J!

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

02-11-2013 02:33 AM

Howdy Dean.

That project was sortof finished about 7 months ago. They were used as plinths and rosettes for every doorway and threshold in the house.

Here is a picture of what they look like now.

However, That style gave me the inspiration to attempt something a bit more taxing. My new display shelves are using the same features. Here are some constructed risers for the shelves.

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

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josephf

9 posts in 2192 days

02-11-2013 03:34 AM

Mark -love those rosettes and casing .Thinking the groove in the casing would benifit from a spray paint rather then a brush job . looks very nice . When i install casing like you did i make the units up on a bench with biscuits and pocket screws or just pocket screws . If i am painting i prepaint then install the units to the jambs in one piece .if it is paint grade a few 18g nails and a 15g nail to pull to the wall when needed .If it is stain grade and i want to avoid nail holes I would put a little glue on the jamb edge,constr adhesive at the wall and use a 23g pinner to hold it till glue sets up .though often times a few clamps are needed to pull it up tight .
when using pocket screws into plinths there is the problem of the plinths being proud of the casing .you will need someway to line the two up before installing pocket screws ,you could use a biscuit for line up .
so did I go to fast .
anyhow preassembling casing really improves the quality of the job ,most likely will be faster ,deals with expansion and contraction and needs less fastners into jamb and wall[less nail holes]

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MarkTheFiddler

447 posts in 2287 days

02-13-2013 06:11 AM

Wow Joseph, great advice! Thank you sir!

-- Working on my home for 2 years and counting.

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